Michael,<br>
<br>
At WT, we have encountered a few (residential) areas in Toronto that
(for a large majority of the residents) have barriers to accessing the
internet. We have even been approached by organizations that have asked
us to consider what can be done to remedy the situation.<br>
<br>
It was my feeling that "Neighbor-node" style functionality in Wifidog
could be a solution to this sort of problem - especially where we can
subsidize access to the internet in low-income households.<br>
<br>
In one such area we studied, we found a high-density, low-income
population in a poorly planned "drive-in" style area with scant public
spaces. While we would still intend to make free hotspots of what few
public spaces they do have, I felt that "neighbor-node" style hotspots
would do more to create access for people in their homes on affordable
computers.<br>
<br>
I think few people in these neighborhoods can afford wireless laptops
and there is little incentive for the local "drive-in/take-out" shops
in the area to make free wireless available.<br>
<br>
I would be very much interested in a "neigbor-node" style option in
Wifidog but, at Wireless Toronto, we haven't discussed it at length so
I'm only speaking for myself.<br>
<br>
Rein<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 2/6/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Michael Lenczner</b> <<a href="mailto:mlenczner@gmail.com">mlenczner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
ah - i understand. we had miscommunication about this.<br><br>when I suggested a commercial version and a residential version I was<br>*not* suggesting a for pay version and a free version. I meant a<br>version that had a captive portal suited for public spaces and a
<br>version that had a captive portal suited for residential spaces.<br>Both would be free. I imagine the residential version being a copy of<br>neighbornode's forum-style portal.<br><br>I just like their method of getting more hotspots by allowing people
<br>to intall their own firmware. It would be in addition to our current<br>model. But it could allow us to target some different populations and<br>accordingly have a different orginizational strategy.<br><br>because I don't really see us getting residential uses - or
<br>non-montreal uses with our current model. not that those are<br>currently goals.<br><br>mike<br><br>On 2/5/06, Dana Spiegel <<a href="mailto:dana@nycwireless.net">dana@nycwireless.net</a>> wrote:<br>> What's the point?
<br>><br>> Fon is a parasitic money generating business. It presents 2 problems:<br>><br>> 1) Density. Only people who live right next to each other have the<br>> possibility of sharing internet through Fon. Most people live too far away.
<br>> Even if they didn't. The likelihood of someone else putting up a fon hotspot<br>> that I could use is close to zero.<br>><br>> 2) Even if (1) weren't the case, the vast majority of people aren't going to
<br>> bother putting this up. Now, they could pay fon for access to hotspots, but<br>> that discourages the creation of new hotspots. In economic terms, this is an<br>> unstable equilibrium. As more people want to get access, they pay for it or
<br>> ignore the system completely. This doesn't cause the growth of the fon<br>> installed base so there's no positive reason why I as an entrant should want<br>> to create a "Linus" type node. Instead, it causes me to put up a "Bill" type
<br>> node, but as more appear, I make less and less. So I have little reason to<br>> keep my fon hotspot online, which drives down the installed base of "Bills",<br>> and puts even more negative pressure on me establishing a "Linus" node.
<br>><br>> Frankly, Fon needs a critical mass in order to be even close to successful.<br>> Until then, they're just going to try to make as much money as they can.<br>><br>> For Wifidog, what's the big drive to create a "consumer" and a "business"
<br>> version? If you are a consumer, you learn about this and do it yourself. If<br>> you are a business, and you want to hire someone to do it for you, you hire<br>> a consultant to install it. Billing is such a headache and expensive to
<br>> operate, that you'd have to have significant usage if you were to profitably<br>> invest in this.<br>><br>><br>> Dana Spiegel<br>> Executive Director<br>> NYCwireless<br>> <a href="mailto:dana@NYCwireless.net">
dana@NYCwireless.net</a><br>> <a href="http://www.NYCwireless.net">www.NYCwireless.net</a><br>> +1 917 402 0422<br>> Read the Wireless Community blog:<br>> <a href="http://www.wirelesscommunity.info">http://www.wirelesscommunity.info
</a><br>><br>><br>> On Feb 5, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Michael Lenczner wrote:<br>><br>> I really think we should talk seriously about having two firmwares<br>> which people can download and install by themselves. two different
<br>> kinds - one for a residential network and one for public hotspots.<br>><br>> I know that there are lots of reasons *not* to do this, but we need to<br>> look at the reasons why we should as well.<br>>
<br>> <a href="http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/fon/a-dream-come-true.html">http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/fon/a-dream-come-true.html</a><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> WiFiDog mailing list
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<br>Software Engineer