[isf-wifidog] Lot WiFiDog, Vol 56, Parution 18
Dave Lamb
delphi9_1971 at yahoo.com
Ven 25 Sep 12:29:19 EDT 2009
Gabe...
For usage that high, you may also want to implement QoS and Traffic Shaping/Policing with higher end enterprise grade routers and switches (E.G. Cisco gear). For example you could identify high bandwidth applications such as Audio/Video Streaming, Webinar tools and limit the amount of bandwidth they consume. If you don't do that, then the first user to use your network to pull a huge High Def Video off the Web will consume all your Bandwidth and kill the performance of your network. However, using QoS tools you could limit that type of traffic to say 3 Mbps and leave the remaining 7 Mbps (assuming a 10 Mbps link) for all other traffic. Thus improving performance for most of your users.
VLAN-ing may help but if you don't control the traffic at the egress point to the network where all the traffic is aggregated out to the internet you'll just move the bottleneck. Yet implementing a QoS policy at this point would help you to govern bandwidth utilization and control performance.
You'll have to do an analysis of the traffic you have at these peak
times to determine which are the top talkers and which should be
limited. But that may help your performance issues when you have heavy
network load.
Also, one other thing to remember. When you are running b/g radios, and a b client attaches to the radio, the radio will switch ALL connected devices to /b speeds. This is because /b uses DSSS as a frequency modulation technique and /g uses OFDM. Since the Modulation technique governs how the radio allocates wireless bandwidth to the wireless clients, the radio can't use two modulation techniques at the same time. So when a /b client comes to a given AP, All wireless clients will step down to /b speeds, which means your /g AP goes from supporting speeds of up to 54 Mbps, down to a max of only 11 Mbps. (Specifically, it will only support 1.1, 2, 5.5 and 11Mbps speeds). So for a high use AP that handles a lot of dissimilar clients (such as your scenario) it is highly likely that your AP's are stepping down to /b speeds and impacting performance.
Your best bet is to take a holistic approach to your issue and not just focus on WiFidog, but rather look at your environment as a whole and design a network that can support you specific needs.
Dave Lamb, CCNA, Network+
312-560-6933 C
________________________________
From: "wifidog-request at listes.ilesansfil.org" <wifidog-request at listes.ilesansfil.org>
To: wifidog at listes.ilesansfil.org
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:00:02 AM
Subject: Lot WiFiDog, Vol 56, Parution 18
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Thèmes du jour :
1. Re: Wifidog for real HEAVY usage (Gabe Sawhney)
2. Re: Wifidog for real HEAVY usage (Richard Lussier)
3. Re: Wifidog for real HEAVY usage (Wichert Akkerman)
4. Re: Wifidog for real HEAVY usage (Wichert Akkerman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:36:53 -0400
From: Gabe Sawhney <gabe at pwd.ca>
To: WiFiDog Captive Portal <wifidog at listes.ilesansfil.org>
Subject: Re: [isf-wifidog] Wifidog for real HEAVY usage
Message-ID:
<95b1c3780909241436t3386cafdq7de145d36f631383 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Almost always when we've set up wifi at conferences, we've ended up turning
off the wifidog gateway, and just running in 'open' mode. Either it's
because use was heavy and the auth server was responding slowly (we have a
modest machine), or people got confused by the captive portal, or the
bandwidth demand was greater than the venue's Internet connection could
support, so we turned off the portal just to reduce the hassle for users.
This, too, is using 'guest' mode -- we wouldn't ask users to create an
account, considering that they're likely just one-time users.
I think there are some amazing opportunities to use portal pages at
conferences for social media experiments, but we still have a lot of work to
do there...
Gabe
(Wireless Toronto)
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Genevieve Bastien <gbastien at versatic.net>wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Ile sans fil is thinking of offering wireless internet access at
> conferences and conventions where there can be as much as thousands of
> people wanting to connect.
>
> Does anyone have experience with that kind of (wifidog) setting, with
> heavy load usage? We'd like to hear about it. What kind of
> configuration did you use? Small router gateway or routing PC? How did
> wifidog do? What were the problems encountered? etc
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Geneviève Bastien
> _______________________________________________
> WiFiDog mailing list
> WiFiDog at listes.ilesansfil.org
> http://listes.ilesansfil.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wifidog
>
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 00:01:23 -0400
From: Richard Lussier <richard.lussier at gmail.com>
To: WiFiDog Captive Portal <wifidog at listes.ilesansfil.org>
Subject: Re: [isf-wifidog] Wifidog for real HEAVY usage
Message-ID: <4ABC4093.4030002 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi,
Well first you need to think of serving 1000 people with any system
(wired for example...)
That is a lot and require enterprise class network, specially with power
users...
Then you have to accept the fact that in wireless, a regular access
point will accept no more than 30-50 users comfortably....
Even the powerfull ones that WISP uses will accept no more than 100
(e.g. Ubiquiti Rocket M (n mimo 2x2 with Airmax) and mimo 2x2 clients
with Airmax, which is impossible.
The router will scale to the lowest level of 802.11 used, normally "b"
at 11Mbps which make 5.5Mbps full duplex to share among users (30 to 50)
So, no a easy , or even possible thing to achieve...?
Richard Lussier
Genevieve Bastien wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Ile sans fil is thinking of offering wireless internet access at
> conferences and conventions where there can be as much as thousands of
> people wanting to connect.
>
> Does anyone have experience with that kind of (wifidog) setting, with
> heavy load usage? We'd like to hear about it. What kind of
> configuration did you use? Small router gateway or routing PC? How did
> wifidog do? What were the problems encountered? etc
>
> Thanks,
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:23:41 +0200
From: Wichert Akkerman <wichert at wiggy.net>
To: WiFiDog Captive Portal <wifidog at listes.ilesansfil.org>
Subject: Re: [isf-wifidog] Wifidog for real HEAVY usage
Message-ID: <4ABC7E0D.3090702 at wiggy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 2009-9-25 06:01, Richard Lussier wrote:
> Hi,
> Well first you need to think of serving 1000 people with any system
> (wired for example...)
> That is a lot and require enterprise class network, specially with power
> users...
> Then you have to accept the fact that in wireless, a regular access
> point will accept no more than 30-50 users comfortably....
> Even the powerfull ones that WISP uses will accept no more than 100
> (e.g. Ubiquiti Rocket M (n mimo 2x2 with Airmax) and mimo 2x2 clients
> with Airmax, which is impossible.
> The router will scale to the lowest level of 802.11 used, normally "b"
> at 11Mbps which make 5.5Mbps full duplex to share among users (30 to 50)
> So, no a easy , or even possible thing to achieve...?
You can achieve it, but you will need a large number of APs at well
choosen locations. You may want to look at equipment that can handle the
802.11b/g/n separately instead of degrading everyone to 802.11b. You may
need to split the location into separate VLANs to prevent overload from
broadcasts. I'ld say the software is probably the simplest part of such
a setup.
Wichert.
--
Wichert Akkerman <wichert at wiggy.net> It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:19:07 +0200
From: Wichert Akkerman <wichert at wiggy.net>
To: WiFiDog Captive Portal <wifidog at listes.ilesansfil.org>
Subject: Re: [isf-wifidog] Wifidog for real HEAVY usage
Message-ID: <4ABC7CFB.7050703 at wiggy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 2009-9-24 23:36, Gabe Sawhney wrote:
> Almost always when we've set up wifi at conferences, we've ended up
> turning off the wifidog gateway, and just running in 'open' mode.
> Either it's because use was heavy and the auth server was responding
> slowly (we have a modest machine), or people got confused by the captive
> portal, or the bandwidth demand was greater than the venue's Internet
> connection could support, so we turned off the portal just to reduce the
> hassle for users.
The gateway should be able to handle that load without too much
problems. You may need to use a custom portal. It shouldn't be too hard
to test that with a funkload setup.
Wichert.
--
Wichert Akkerman <wichert at wiggy.net> It is simple to make things.
http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple.
------------------------------
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Fin de Lot WiFiDog, Vol 56, Parution 18
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